Curse

Durai · Jun 04, 2011, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Okay, so I've recently achieved 30 of the 50 points for my Hall of Monuments. I'd like to gain as many points past 30 (probably up to 35-40) so I'm starting to go for Mini's/Armor/ect.

One of my first goals is to get a Tormented Weapon, but I don't really wanna shell out 21-23 ectos for one. Whatever ectos I get are going towards Vabbian armor (I've got about 7e so far w/ 100k saved up and 1 Ruby/Sapphire each).

I'm also wary against joining groups because I can't guarantee that I can stay at my computer while with a group. Being able to walk away from my computer and coming back to my heroes will save my a lot of "Sorry, got2go."

As it stands I've got 2 characters that have access to DoA; a Ritualist and a Dervish. I've tried looking a 7Hero team build, but I think I'm looking in the wrong places. That, or people simply don't post builds for it. I managed to get through the City of Torc'qua using Panic/Ineptitude Mesmers, Unyielding Aura/Healer's Boon Monks, Soul Twisting Ritualist, Restoration Necromancer, Ray of Judgment Smiter, and Edge of Extinction Spirit Spammer (Me). It took a lot of pulling and retreating, but I finally made it to the Stygian Veil. However I ended up getting my ass handed to me shortly after taking the first quest there. Whether I did something wrong or I just didn't have the right build, I'm unsure of. That's why I've come here, to ask for advice and tips. Are there certain must-haves for doing DoA? Are Minion Master needed, or should I focus more on Mesmers? Maybe Rits? Any and all help is appreciated. Hell, if you have a useful guide/link, that' be just great.

Kunder · Jun 04, 2011, 06:41 PM // 18:41

NM DoA isn't too hard with any (powerful) balanced build. I prefer multiple MMs, others take 0. Mesmers/Rits are always powerful, but not essential. Do a search, you will find plenty of builds. You yourself are probably best off doing it on your Derv so you can use SY since that greatly widens your safety margin in all high end areas.

Your biggest problem is probably just not knowing the area. You don't need to stand and fight the entire set of waves for that quest (and for the majority of builds doing so is suicide). Run off to the side and pick apart groups at your leisure.

Plutoman · Jun 04, 2011, 08:25 PM // 20:25

In addition, 3 healers and a source of protection is overkill. Take more damage, so you can cut down the groups faster and more reliably. 2 healers and a source of protection (ST is great) is really the most you need in any area, including the DoA.

To start - City is straightforward. Just make sure to pull mobs separately, especially at the end. Veil, in the first quest, pull back so you can pull separately. Each of the waves consists of 3 different linked mobs, so you can fight only 6 at a time instead of 18. In the trenches, when you hit the middle groups pop on each side to attack, that can be difficult for some groups. When you finish the Lords, tendrils pop up everywhere, and when killing the big ones, more smaller tendrils spawn and mobs spawn. You only need to kill the mobs and large tendrils, but pulling back and picking them off at leisure after killing the mobs is easy enough.

In Gloom, take care in the cave. You'll defend from multiple large waves, but have a chokepoint for advantage. Outside, clear patrols around, and the rest is fairly easy. The boss splits as you kill it, dividing up to the bottom into a large group of tormentors. When you kill them and those spawn, if you retreat and pull separately it's easy.

Foundry's the most difficult, close quarters to start, pull as best you can and take extreme care, don't be afraid to retreat a single hero with a res while you and the rest die (or run yourself). Rebirth's nice to have. In the third room, run to the corner following the wall on your right, stick heroes in the very very corner, and pull groups from there. Might take a few times to learn the patrol routes as to when to pull. In the fourth, pull as best as you can. In the fifth, lots and lots of pulling, take care here, don't get aggressive, no matter how well you're doing. At the boss, I pull the group into the tunnel around the corner so I can spike them together, and then retreat to the very back to lose aggro if they survive. In NM it goes smoothly, in HM it took me 3-4 tries, maybe more.

Durai · Jun 04, 2011, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

In addition, 3 healers and a source of protection is overkill. Take more damage, so you can cut down the groups faster and more reliably. 2 healers and a source of protection (ST is great) is really the most you need in any area, including the DoA.

What would you recommend for damage output? Mesmers, Spirits, Elementalists, Necromancers? I've heard that physical heroes aren't great so I'm assuming not Warriors/Dervishes.

Plutoman · Jun 04, 2011, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Edited my post - Mesmers are great in the DoA. Panic/Ineptitude/E-Surge, two dom and one illusion. Shared Burden's also pretty nice if you micro it. A dervish is semi-ok after the buff, an AoD Derv isn't bad from what I've heard. Ideally, though, mesmers - sometimes an invoke ele, but I wouldn't advise it in Foundry as much.

Some people will say an SoGM rit, which is powerful - but I always feel like it takes too long to set down spirits and etc. However, if you want more safety, using it and pre-setting up spirits is a great and effective way to go through. One or two RoJ smiters is also a good option if you snare with Shared Burden. There's quite a few combinations - I wouldn't use a necro for much damage, though, not with other options available.

Kunder · Jun 04, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

I wouldn't use a necro for much damage, though, not with other options available.

MMs still have by far the highest single target DPS in the game and can't be outpaced by AoE damage unless entire groups are balled up on top of each other. Downside of course being the need to not let the minions die or your damage dies too.

Plutoman · Jun 04, 2011, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Bear in mind - I'm talking about the DoA in specific. If you're doing a run through, it'll be worthless in most (two thirds or so) of the Veil and pretty much all of the foundry. Those areas lack a significant amount of corpses.

If you're doing a run through with each area separately, Gloom and City can use an MM and do fine, but it's annoying in City because they'll run up to the wall and camp till death. Gloom is really the only area I seriously consider bringing one because it assists in body-blocking the cave.

As far as an MM goes - it's a powerful build to be sure, I dislike that it's random DPS, conditional DPS as long as minions are alive, potentially able to be turned against us with the death of the MM, and can lag behind to keep much of the benefits from actually helping. It's useful in plenty of areas - I wouldn't say the DoA is one of them though - things are just too dicey to have such conditional damage.

Kunder · Jun 05, 2011, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I've managed to keep 2 MMs at 10/11 minions each for almost all of DoA, including HM. Dunno what you are doing. City does suck though.

Random DPS is fine when the DPS is 2-3x what another character can do. Worst case, against most groups of 3-5 you break even with AoE characters in pure DPS and the minions help body block which helps your AoEs do more DPS anyways. MMs should never die since nothing should ever breach the MM wall, but if you still feel uncomfortable take Dark Bond which is basically the self cast 30s enchantment version of Save Yourselves that also works against armor ignoring damage.

The only real downside to running a MM that can't be fixed by playing well is that AoE blinding enemies make them offensively useless and its pretty much impossible to get the condition off them.

Mig Coconut · Jun 05, 2011, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I recommend

you: SoS

heroes:
some frontline (derv, warrior)
roj
panic
esurge or inept
minion master
st rit
n/rt resto

Shatter and smite hex, mistrust, blood bond, blood ritual, mark of pain, stand your ground, never surrender, and edge of extinction are all helpful.

Best thing is to take things slow and kill groups one at a time. Pop a conset to make things easier.

Tips: For city, at the end wait near the city gates and kill Jadoth's groups as they come to you. Aggroing multiple enemy groups here can pay off (good timing of aoe and mop) but is risky. For veil, once you take the quest at the beginning intercept the left group as they approach, then kill the rest of that plateau's spawns (6 waves). Then kill the other groups. For the dreadspawn maw, flag your heroes back and make sure shelter is up. Solo a single tendril, then pull the spawns back and kill with your heroes. For gloom, use the cave entrance as a bottleneck. For the darknesses at the end, after the first wave try killing just one darknesses at a time, then running away and breaking aggro. Go back and kill the earth tormenters spawns, then repeat for the rest of the darknesses. You can kill them all at once, but it is risky (use eoe for sure if you do). For foundry, it is very important just to aggro one mob at a time, as titans spawn additional enemies upon death. For third room, go to the far wall from the entrance and pull/kill enemies there. For the big room, kill all the center patrols first (be aware many paths cross so you may aggro other groups as you are killing), then take snakes. For Fury, it is highly recommended you micro panic.

Plutoman · Jun 05, 2011, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I've managed to keep 2 MMs at 10/11 minions each for almost all of DoA, including HM. Dunno what you are doing. City does suck though.

Random DPS is fine when the DPS is 2-3x what another character can do. Worst case, against most groups of 3-5 you break even with AoE characters in pure DPS and the minions help body block which helps your AoEs do more DPS anyways. MMs should never die since nothing should ever breach the MM wall, but if you still feel uncomfortable take Dark Bond which is basically the self cast 30s enchantment version of Save Yourselves that also works against armor ignoring damage.

The only real downside to running a MM that can't be fixed by playing well is that AoE blinding enemies make them offensively useless and its pretty much impossible to get the condition off them.

Considering HM Foundry consists of extreme PBAoE damage from Rage Titans, on top of high hitting Searing Flames ele's of the Tortureweb Dryders, AND no minions from 75% of the foes (only ones that will are the dryders and margonite's) - there's no way you could fill two MM's and keep all of them alive. An enraged Rage Titan will destroy all of them in one shockwave, never mind the dervishes spawning afterwards. Aegis doesn't protect them, and Displacement only handles so many hits. In NM, it'll be the same.

In the veil, you can't exploit the corpses of the Stygians (except the golems, if I remember correctly?), and only the torment creatures. While it's possible to use an MM, it's not that useful except against Hungers to take the hits.

I already stated the problems in City. With that, I'll stick by my statement not to use an MM for a full run. For separate runs, I would use it for gloom. Otherwise, the concentrated fire (and shutdown) is important to make it through the DoA, especially foundry.

Edit: There may be an exception if you're using consets. The MM, the protection sources, and the healers could potentially keep up, and the mesmers will shut down significantly more effectively. If you're not using consets, there's no way they will be kept alive - and even with consets, don't try foundry HM with 2 minion masters.

I'll add @OP that using a Dervish with SY will make the run feel significantly easier. It's difficult as a caster primary, and don't expect to make it through HM without SY unless you're wanting to put a heck of a lot of work into it.

Durai · Jun 05, 2011, 01:25 AM // 01:25

I'd just like to thank everyone who's made a suggestion here today; I fared much better this time around, making it to Ravenheart Gloom. I couldn't kill the creatures fast enough, so I'm posting my current build so everyone can see exactly what I'm using and advise from there. I know I need more damage output, but I'm not sure what I need to do.

Any critiques/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Plutoman · Jun 05, 2011, 01:53 AM // 01:53

First thing that stands out is that the two dom mesmers will burn through energy, and run dry, even with BR. BR, as a touch skill, is all that's going to be keeping two mesmers and the UA going. Especially the first dom mesmer - less e-management, and a higher energy elite, along with Overload, for more energy being spent.

The other thing that stands out is that it's too much reliance on interrupts for damage - you should read through Lex Talionis's (sp?) thread on mesmers. When you stack too many interrupts, they'll try to interrupt the same skill, and only one gets energy, while the other spends 5e for nothing right when they needed energy.

The other thing is that Union won't benefit much - it's much more worthwhile to have two shelters than a shelter and a union, since ST can only go up every 15 seconds. Displacement should, ideally, be disabled and only used when you have melee groups.

Another comment is that with UA, you could afford to lose a lot of the rezzes. Even in the DoA, I'd only take 4 rezzes & UA at the max, leaving 2 more open slots.

And lastly, I'm not sure what you're playing, I'm rather unfamiliar with dervishes and haven't taken the time as of yet to learn the skills, but I'd say you need a copy of splinter. You might consider an SoS/Resto with BR instead of the N/Rt. Spirit Siphon serves as excellent e-management when it's the only hero using it. A 14 spec splinter will do wonders to damage. If you're playing the AoD derv yourself, with two healers it shouldn't be needed - get some damage on that derv! I think AoB increase adrenaline, which would be perfect for SY. (if you're playing this kinda build, completely disregard this XD).

Lastly, some party healing would be good on the UA - there's two party-wide Divine Favor spells that are great - and Sig of Rejuvenation has a really long casting time, which can be pretty annoying with the interrupts prevalent in the DoA.

Otherwise, most of it looks fairly solid - these are just tweaks to make. Hope I've helped!

Durai · Jun 05, 2011, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

First thing that stands out is that the two dom mesmers will burn through energy, and run dry, even with BR. BR, as a touch skill, is all that's going to be keeping two mesmers and the UA going. Especially the first dom mesmer - less e-management, and a higher energy elite, along with Overload, for more energy being spent.

The other thing that stands out is that it's too much reliance on interrupts for damage - you should read through Lex Talionis's (sp?) thread on mesmers. When you stack too many interrupts, they'll try to interrupt the same skill, and only one gets energy, while the other spends 5e for nothing right when they needed energy.

The other thing is that Union won't benefit much - it's much more worthwhile to have two shelters than a shelter and a union, since ST can only go up every 15 seconds. Displacement should, ideally, be disabled and only used when you have melee groups.

Another comment is that with UA, you could afford to lose a lot of the rezzes. Even in the DoA, I'd only take 4 rezzes & UA at the max, leaving 2 more open slots.

And lastly, I'm not sure what you're playing, I'm rather unfamiliar with dervishes and haven't taken the time as of yet to learn the skills, but I'd say you need a copy of splinter. You might consider an SoS/Resto with BR instead of the N/Rt. Spirit Siphon serves as excellent e-management when it's the only hero using it. A 14 spec splinter will do wonders to damage. If you're playing the AoD derv yourself, with two healers it shouldn't be needed - get some damage on that derv! I think AoB increase adrenaline, which would be perfect for SY. (if you're playing this kinda build, completely disregard this XD).

Lastly, some party healing would be good on the UA - there's two party-wide Divine Favor spells that are great - and Sig of Rejuvenation has a really long casting time, which can be pretty annoying with the interrupts prevalent in the DoA.

Otherwise, most of it looks fairly solid - these are just tweaks to make. Hope I've helped!

1. Okay, so, what should I add/replace so that the 2 Dom Mesmers have better E-Management? Most of their skills that replenish energy are interrupts, so that's kinda where I get lost.

2. Also, what do yo mean by 2 Shelters? I'm sure that only 1 type of spirit can be on the field at a time, lest the 2nd one summoned destroys the first.

3. I've removed 2 of the hard rezes.

4. Would it be more beneficial to include a Healer's Boon Monk with Arcane Mimicry to increase Unyielding Aura's potency, or simply keep 1 monk with UA?

5. Since the update to Derv's, I'm still working on my skillset.

Thanks again for your help.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 05, 2011, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durai

2. Also, what do yo mean by 2 Shelters? I'm sure that only 1 type of spirit can be on the field at a time, lest the 2nd one summoned destroys the first.

What he means is this:

ST has three charges. With your current build, one charge will be spent on Shelter, one charge will be spent on Displacement, and one charge will be spent on Union. He's proposing dropping Union so that after Shelter dies, there's still one charge left to bring up a new copy of Shelter.

thetwistedboy · Jun 05, 2011, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Idk if you'd be able to manage it too well with the pious teardowns build, but using some hero micro would be great. Bind panic to 1, 2, or 3, even tab. Disable it and force the hero to use it on the biggest mob and and just watch its cooldown and throw it back out when it's recharged. It's worked wonders for me.

For the build,
I've got a beef with SoGM because it hinders mobility a lot and sometimes the spirits won't even be recharged in time for the next fight. Not to mention it's a problem when the spirits are destroyed, then the hero is useless. It may be really awesome though in some places, like the first quest in ravenheart gloom...

Next, ditch union and Armor of Unfeeling. Union for reasons stated above. Armor of Unfeeling because unless you are going to pre-setup your spirits and micro Armor of Unfeeling before each fight(or at least the big ones), the hero will not use it unless one of his spirits gets attacked. And if he does cast it, soon the spirit will be destroyed and he will throw the spirit back up. And Armor of Unfeeling won't be on it and is so conveniently on its recharge.

Really consider doing some hero microing. If you practice a little it, it gets to be second nature and can really help fill some gaps in the hero's AI. Like putting Panic on a lone physical.

Plutoman · Jun 05, 2011, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Addressing 1 - One of my favorites is Hex Eater Signet, for the extreme hex removal, though fairly long recharge, it has some good e-management on the side. However, I play a caster, therefore Shatter Hex has always been relatively useless compared to your builds. As I play differently from you, I'm thinking that on first glance Shatter Hex will be powerful AoE damage to keep. Another option for e-management is Drain Enchantment, as you're very often facing enemies with enchants, all the ele's, monks spamming skills, etc. It gives a good return and is useful, too.

As far as skills to replace, I'm thinking Unnatural Signet, or Power Drain, would be the first to go. Possibly Overload, but I lack experience with that skill so I'll refrain from judgement on it.

With the monk(s) - I've never done much experimenting with a dual monk HB/UA combo. It's powerful, to be sure - but it might be overkill. That's something you might want to try on your own - swapping out the necro healer, or something. Those two healers and the ST Rit, and SY, is all you need for protection and healing. Any more significantly is cutting into the killing power, and you'll find yourself too long in battles that are already difficult enough.

Whatever you do - my biggest two recommendations are to add splinter, at least at 10 spec, if not 14 (you could replace the offensive SoGM rit with an offensive SoS Rit with Ancestor's Rage/Spirit Rift/Lamentation/Splinter, etc) - and keeping Blood Ritual (though this can be mitigated with slightly tweaked bars). Possibility of running an offensive SoS with BR, swapping out the necro for an HB monk.. There's a lot of options. You have the core of what's needed, so anything else is just extra to attempt to make it easier - no guarantees at this point!

@Above, I've always kept AoU, because even if it adds only 3-4 more charges, it's worth a skill slot to me. Those shelter charges are important when you have the enraged monster skill breathing down your throat. In a normal area, I'd not worry about it, but every little bit of protection you can squeeze is good, and the bar has room for it generally. Now, that's not to say it's an ideal skill - it's really up to you. Heroes truly don't use it well, I use it for that little bit of extra. You might find something better to use ^^

batno_mercy · Jun 05, 2011, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durai

1. Okay, so, what should I add/replace so that the 2 Dom Mesmers have better E-Management? Most of their skills that replenish energy are interrupts, so that's kinda where I get lost.

4. Would it be more beneficial to include a Healer's Boon Monk with Arcane Mimicry to increase Unyielding Aura's potency, or simply keep 1 monk with UA?

Thanks again for your help.

1: Waste not, Want not. Amazing skill, AI uses it wonderfully. You have two copies of it, get a 3rd one. Slap a drain enchantment if you find they lose that much energy. It's not a bad thing because some of the encantments in DoA are bitchy. Also consider using leech signet, as it interrupts all actions and doesn't cost anything. Or just disable and micro them, assign three of your numpad buttons to you mesmer's interrupt and use them yourself.

4. I wouldn't, that's overheal. Swap out pdrain for heaven's delight or release enchantments depending on your micro skills.